The chief end of man is to: Glorify God and enjoy Him forever.

Westminister Confession of Faith

Reformers...circa 1400 AD

dcbooth82 wrote:


Welcome to our forum and your new home, Dave!!! It's so nice to know you'll be part of my growing online family. Tell me, Dave (and I apologize for my so poor English), are you a Minister of Westminister Confession of Faith? I could tell you are a very spiritual person and have God in your heart since the first time we were chatting. Also, please, tell me, and I apologize again for asking so silly questions. I hope you will forgive my ignorance in English once again: what does Reformers...circa mean? I keep speaking in Spanish and this reminds me I need to practice my English a little bit more.

I'm so glad we can keep in touch now more than ever. Welcome, welcome, welcome, my friend!!!!

Romina,

You asked me a couple of questions......who were the reformers? and what does "circa" mean?.

I have been a Christian orthodox pastor/teacher in the past and have been a guest speaker to pastors in India a few times. I am a student of true theology, that meaning the study of God from the Bible, Old and New Testaments.

I'll try to make this brief....but it is sort of complicated.

By the 1400s AD the formal Christian church had become very corrupt. They had combined powers with the governments of the world...specifically starting with the Roman govt, and had become a very oppressive force; a hypocritical force in the world. They would speak to their congregations in Latin....not even caring if their listeners could understand them. They would exact lots of money from often very poor people......assuring the people their loved ones wouldn't stay in a form of hell (something not even taught in the Bible.) They would charge people to listen to them confess their sins (another thing you will never find in the Bible). They had become very legalistic, reducing Christiany to a bunch of dos and don'ts which it is not.

Certain true students of the Word...to name a few, Martin Luther, Zwingly, Calvin, Tyndall...and others, knew this was very wrong. At great danger to themselves they "protested" against the organized church. They reformed their teaching and congregations to what they knew the Bible really taught, specifically in the New Testament. They also seperated themselves and their congregations from the established government. Thus they are referred to as "reformers" in that they reformed the Christian church in general. They are also called "protestents" in that they protested against the corruptions of the established Roman Catholic church.

Christian reform denominations would include Baptists, Lutherns, Episcapalian, Church of Christ...maybe even Pentacostal (although they are pretty far out), others.

So, in the study of Christian Church history, the reformers and the "Reformation" time is a huge dividing point. Circa meaning "on or about". It was the end of the 1400s when this started to stir. Incidentally, a period of time called the middle or dark ages ended on or about when the reformers protested against the corrupt teachings of the Roman church, and began to teach grace and what the Bible really was saying to us.

It is always a bad thing to combine church and state. It becomes a huge oppression that people just cannot bear. This was broken with the reformation. The US was founded by people who had come out of the reformation.....and mostly reformation type groups....and the separation of church and state is a major concept in our US constitution.

I must mention one more thing. The issue of how we become at peace with God was major during the reformation. Martin Luther specifically came across a passage in the New Testament......"therefore being justified by faith (remember we talked about faith, the object having all the merit?) we have peace (tranquility, contentment, eternal, positive relationship with God) with God through our Lord Jesus Christ." By teaching this and grace, he almost lost his life. Many other did. It was a direct attack against the corrupt powers of the Roman Catholic church. Faith and grace always go together. We are justified before God by faith in His son.

I hope this helps you. I am going to write something else soon.

With my desire for God's highest and best for you,

David B.

Thank you so much for the clarification, Dave. I was baptised as a Roman Catholic and I do believe in most part of the doctrine, but not all of it, so now I can tell you I don't profess any religion. I have a strong faith in God and feel Him in my heart, but I don't like the way people use religion to justify humans and animal abuse. I was born in Peru, and when I was a kid I used to visit the Museum of the Spanish Inquisition in Lima:

More information here:

philatelydominicanorder.org/dominicans_a...qusition_in_lima.htm

The Medieval Inquisition was a series of Inquisitions, where Roman Catholic Church bodies charged with suppressing heres, from around 1184, including the Episcopal Inquisition (1184-1230s) and later the Papal Inquisition (1230s). And this was in response to large popular movements throughout Europe considered apostate or heretical to Christianity, in particular Catharism and Waldensians in southern France and northern Italy. These were the first inquisition movements of many that would follow. After 1252 they used torture. On May 15, Pope Innocent IV issued a papal bull entitled Ad exstirpanda, which authorized the use of torture by inquisitors. But the Inquisitors were forbidden to use methods that resulted in bloodshed, mutilation or death. One of the most common forms of medieval inquisition torture was known as "strappado". The hands were bound behind the back with a rope, and the victim was suspended this way, dislocating the joints painfully in both arms. Weights could be added to the legs dislocating those joints as well. Just to think about that makes me sick. Lots of other horrible ways of torturing could be seen in the museum, Dave.

I could never understand how so horrible crimes could be committed in the name of religion. For instance, the human sacrifices in Buddhist Burma in the 1850s. When the capital was moved to Mandalay, 56 “spotless” men were buried beneath the new city walls to sanctify and protect the city. When two of the burial spots were later found empty, royal astrologers decreed that 500 men, women, boys, and girls had to be killed and buried at once, or the capital shoul have been abandoned. About 100 were actually buried before British governors stopped the ceremonies.

Even after the reformation I can't really see the real image of God in any existing religion, so I just go by the Bible and by what my heart tells me is right.

Tell me, Dave. I have another question for you. When I read the Bible in English, I find words that are different than the English I hear everyday. It uses words like "thou", for instance. Why is that? Is that really English or what's that language called?